Using a standard switch with inline relay 500w

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LightwaveRF Community: Welcome Forums Installation and Troubleshooting Using a standard switch with inline relay 500w

This topic contains 33 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  michael ward 5 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 34 total)
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  • #12142
     Node Zero says:

    Node Zero
    Participant

    The inline relay will not serve as a replacement for one end of a 2 way circuit,

    Really?

    Obviously i haven’t tried it but my theory was that if you ignored the stop control you could simply toggle between open and close just like a 2way switch toggling between L1 & L2.

    Does the relay power up in stop? All other lw devices power up in off, which is close on the 500w relay.

    #12144
     skiv71 says:

    skiv71
    Participant

    The inline relay has 2 1P1W relays inside with the C connected together and presented to the end user as the COM connection.

    Before i realised the above, i hoped to use the relay as a changeover, but found that the default state is all off for both outputs.

    If you want either to be energised, you must send the appropriate command.

    I later imitated change over functionality in software, but i think it would be a nice feature to select this at hardware level.

    So i requested it :)

    Neil

    developer of BMS Link (http://linode.bmslink.co.uk). A cloud based Home Automation platform for LightwaveRF, Z-Wave, RFXCOM.
    #12146
     Node Zero says:

    Node Zero
    Participant

    So forgetting the power up status and never using the the stop command, I still can not see how it couldn’t be used (in theory) to replace either or both switch(es) in a 2 way circuit.

    #12148
     skiv71 says:

    skiv71
    Participant

    How about this for the traditional borrowed feed, 2c strapper?

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    developer of BMS Link (http://linode.bmslink.co.uk). A cloud based Home Automation platform for LightwaveRF, Z-Wave, RFXCOM.
    #12150
     skiv71 says:

    skiv71
    Participant

    Or this for the 3 core method :)

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    developer of BMS Link (http://linode.bmslink.co.uk). A cloud based Home Automation platform for LightwaveRF, Z-Wave, RFXCOM.
    #12153
     Nlotf says:

    Nlotf
    Participant

    Neil and Node Zero, I really appreciate all your help.. but if you do not mind, Neil ..would you please explain your diagrams so I can keep up with you two :D

    *shaking my head* way out of my depth :D

    #12154
     Node Zero says:

    Node Zero
    Participant

    Just to clarify Neil, are you now saying that you think it could be used as a replacement for one end of a 2 way circuit?

    #12156
     skiv71 says:

    skiv71
    Participant

    Yes, the only issue as it stands is at present, is that by design you have to forcibly energise the apparent N/C output yourself. Otherwise you’ll have no path at all at one end of your 2 way.

    If JSJS were to modify the device at hardware level to allow changeover type operation (NO or NC) then it will appear to the circuit as a 1g2w switch.

    I know JSJS are looking at doing some mods to existing devices, an i think this would be a worthwhile inclusion.

    Neil

    developer of BMS Link (http://linode.bmslink.co.uk). A cloud based Home Automation platform for LightwaveRF, Z-Wave, RFXCOM.
    #12158
     Node Zero says:

    Node Zero
    Participant

    Yes, the only issue as it stands is at present, is that by design you have to forcibly energise the apparent N/C output yourself. Otherwise you’ll have no path at all at one end of your 2 way.

    But surely that only applies after a power cut.

    If JSJS were to modify the device at hardware level to allow changeover type operation (NO or NC) then it will appear to the circuit as a 1g2w switch.

    Changeover type operation (NO or NC) is currently possible if you ignore the stop command which is only ‘sendable’ from the app or the up/down switch (JSJSLW826) anyway. If you’re using a hand held remote or wireless 1g/2g switch to control this relay ON or OFF act as OPEN or CLOSE, and STOP does not come into it.

    #12179
     Nlotf says:

    Nlotf
    Participant

    Neil and Node Zero, I really appreciate all your help.. but if you do not mind, Neil ..would you please explain your diagrams so I can keep up with you two

    *shaking my head* way out of my depth

    Ehm … hopefully you would not mind explaining the diagrams so I can keep up with you !!

    #12185
     skiv71 says:

    skiv71
    Participant

    Hi Nlotf,

    The circuits i’ve drawn as 2 way circuits with 1 end having the usual switch replaced with the relay contacts.

    Just trace the current flow and you’ll see how it works :)

    Neil

    developer of BMS Link (http://linode.bmslink.co.uk). A cloud based Home Automation platform for LightwaveRF, Z-Wave, RFXCOM.
    #12189
     Nlotf says:

    Nlotf
    Participant

    Hello Neil,

    I just am confused as I can not see the load in the three core method as well as I do not understand the loop from the com to the out2, to take things a step by step.. what is a strapper, I looked it up online and what I understood that it is a switch of a sort. I would appreciate it if you explained it a bit.

    If I understood correctly in the three core method and assuming that black wires are neutral, the out2 from the relay is connected to the neutral of the switch ?!

    Sincerely

    #20842
     YaX says:

    YaX
    Participant

    Hi Neil and others,
    I want to wire a standard switch in parallel to the switching block in a JSJSLW400. The objective is that for 90% of the time, the physical switch would be used to turn on and off the outside porch lighting. However, when the physical switch in in the off position (at night), I would like a PIR to drive the JSJSLW400 to the timed on position.
    The question is whether the rectifier and high voltage resistor within the JSJLW400 would suffer consequence – when the physical switch is off, the JSJS400 is powered (2mA, 0.5W load), however when the physical switch is on, it effectively would short the JSJ400 and hence the high voltage resistor would need to take the latent energy in the JSJS400 circuit.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    (PS: my home lab testing illustrated that this operates as expected, but I do not have a speedy slew rate meter to capture the current loop back into this resistor)
    Many thanks….

    #20846
     skiv71 says:

    skiv71
    Participant

    Hi Nlotf,

    Sorry, seem’s I lost track of this post.

    The circuit design is quite simple, its just a case of following current flow.

    It’ll be much easier to follow if you can understand how 2 way switching works.

    But even so, the weak link is still the LWRF relay, which is not a change over relay, but infact 2 independant relay’s, with their COM internally linked.

    But if LWRF had a ‘changeover’ mode, the relay could be made to have o/p1 as N/C and o/p2 as N/O, and then have on/off making the N/O.

    Yax, i’d look at alternative methods before disapating waste energy :)

    developer of BMS Link (http://linode.bmslink.co.uk). A cloud based Home Automation platform for LightwaveRF, Z-Wave, RFXCOM.
    #20870
     Chester says:

    Chester
    Participant

    Nlotf: I agree with skiv71, and as you say you can be away in Egypt for long periods leaving others to understand that they need to use a wireless switch or the app/Link to switch off the light to allow an ordinary light switch to work after a power outage or circuit issue. Plus, the switch position will determine whether on or off from a LightwaveRF wireless switch, or the app/Link will be required to operate the light. This will be very confusing for some people. If the LW821, in a later release, could be made to toggle between the outputs, and have a default position for your switch to work, that would be great.

    This would also require software engineering within the app, and new wireless remotes, because the commands are discreet on or off and not toggle. For this reason, I wouldn’t hold my breath! That’s a lot of affected products for this one change.

    For reference: push the button on the LW821 briefly and that’s equivalent to ‘stop’, i.e. both relays de-energised. Use an LW101 mood controller’s all-off command, this will always de-energise the connection to the left of common, and energise the relay for the connection to to the right of common. An off command from a wireless remote does the same thing.

    YaX: Why not use a mains switching PIR as part of your two way circuit? Do you need LW for this?

    Chester
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