LWRF400 series dimmer and Lumilife 4.5w LED issues

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LightwaveRF Community: Welcome Forums Installation and Troubleshooting LWRF400 series dimmer and Lumilife 4.5w LED issues

This topic contains 13 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  cndawes 4 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #16424
     Chester says:

    Chester
    Participant

    I currently have 2 issues with a Lumilife 320lm 4.5w LED candle on a LWRF450 dimmer. The lamp illuminates in standby (or off, it’s not really ‘off’ is it!); and when and fully dimmed, on occasion will turn itself off and forget its brightness level. Has anyone seen this before?

    I’ve raised this with LWRF support and so far not getting anything useful back apart from of course trying a Megaman lamp. I’ve also raised this with LED Hut and awaiting response. I’ll report back here if I do get anything useful, but I’m really hoping not to be tied in exclusively to Megaman. After all, LED Hut advertise on here as selling ‘quality LED bulbs compatible with LightwaveRF dimmers’.

    Cheers…

    Chester
    #16426
     Calzor Suzay says:

    Calzor Suzay
    Participant

    It’s a minefield isn’t it :(

    I’ve currently got a few LED Hut bulbs on order and hoping they work.
    Maybe a user populated table/database of what does work should be compiled, Personally I don’t want to be forced to buy Megaman bulbs unless I have to as they seem more expensive than most (Maybe because they’re the only ones that work and have you over a barrel)

    #16446
     Calzor Suzay says:

    Calzor Suzay
    Participant

    Well the LED Hut ones turned up, billed as *new* working with dimmable switches, do they? no…

    I bought a normal shape bulb, these seem to work.
    4 candle style all that flicker like crazy when ‘off’ and seem to pulse even when on.
    A Gu10 spot again billed as *new* working with dimmable switches again just stays on when it’s off.

    FFS!

    #16449
     dangerousbrian says:

    dangerousbrian
    Participant

    4 Watt GU10 LED Bulb – Wide Beam Angle
    Option
    Warm White – Dimmable GU10-320-WW-D
    from ledhut

    These work fine as long as there is more than one in that light circuit.
    I tried them on a single two way circuit over a dressing table and suffered the same thing.
    When i get time i will disconnect the two way and try again.
    Hope this helps

    #16470
     Calzor Suzay says:

    Calzor Suzay
    Participant

    I had the “*NEW* 4.5 Watt GU10 LED – Wide Beam Angle – 350 Lumens Daylight – Dimmable GU10-350-DL-D” ones from LED Hut, doesn’t work on it’s own like you say but my setup is a single spot.

    For now I have a halogen in it and 3 spare bulbs so for the cost of buying a Megaman GU10 vs running the 4 existing halogens till I run out and electricity is probably cheaper.

    #16669
     gavgav says:

    gavgav
    Participant

    Hi All,

    I’ve got the
    Warm White – Dimmable GU10-320-WW-D from led hut in every room of the house, I had a problem in one room where one bulb was staying on all the time even when it was switched off but after a few hours of pulling my hair out and wondering how I’d managed to wire up the circuit incorrectly (was in a new room) found on that order I hadn’t clicked the dimmable option (felt pretty stupid!) however now seem to have the same problem as dangerousbrian where I have a single bulb on a circuit (in two rooms) that won’t turn off all the time it has the LED bulb in it, is fine as soon as you put a normal halogen in it though. Does anyone know of one of the Megaman ones that will work with just one bulb in the circuit? either that or is there some sort of resister you can put in to take some of the load out? its a bit annoying that I’ve got the rest of the house full of them and have to have halogen in those two rooms…

    Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated. :)

    #16680
     Chester says:

    Chester
    Participant

    I’m still waiting for my Megaman bulbs from Fastlec, ordered 14/10; no I’m not joking!

    The results from my email discussions with Lumilife/LEDhut are that they will enter into a joint testing/development venture with LightwaveRF if they initiate communication with Lumilife, and I imagine that means negotiating non-disclosure agreements and agreeing cost splitting in advance. I should think this will be a move that Megaman will block as it’s not in their interest. Well, it kind of is if they want to shift more LightwaveRF kit, just not their bulbs!

    I’m hoping to get time to chase Fastlec today. If I don’t get a reasonable response from them, I’ll cancel the order and call Megaman and ask what’s going on.

    Mmm, on-going…

    Chester
    #16735
     devoncatt says:

    devoncatt
    Participant

    Tried various dimmable bulbs and had a small light on when it was off, megaman bulbs work fine actually shuts off

    Always trust the tech or not?
    #16750
     Chester says:

    Chester
    Participant

    LW420 testing – switching to Megaman bulbs

    First a quick recap: I’m using an LW420 2-gang dimmer for the drive (single lantern) and hallway (2 pendants) with an LW450 slave for the hallway. Control operation is fine. The bulbs originally used for the hallway were Brightgreen BR1000s (1100lm 13w). The quality of light from these things are exceptional, amazingly bright, too bright for the room normally, and unfortunately the dimming range is very narrow, only visibly responding to dimming above 50% through the app (tested at 10% increments). No flickering and identical operation with 1 or 2 bulbs in the circuit. The lantern used a Lumilife E27-B3-CW-F-D (320lm 4.5W). The symptoms here are the bulb glows in standby (LW420 status red) and a narrow dimming range.

    So I swapped out the hallway lamps for the recommended LG2508-5d-B22-2800K (600lm 8.5w). Obviously nowhere near as bright as the BR1000 and that’s a good thing, they still suffer from a very limited dimming range. Now the Megaman compatibility chart says that all tested bulbs go down to 10% and work with even just 1 bulb in the circuit, but my findings are they do not respond to dimming below 50%, just like the BR1000s. They’re just not practical for the application. I’m not happy! Operation is identical again with 1 or 2 bulbs in the circuit.

    On to the driveway lantern, I swapped out the candle for an LC0607dCSv2-E14-2800K (400lm 7w). The candle looks quite odd as it’s clear with what looks like a perspex tube to attempt to get an even spread of light from a single LED. This particular bulb is not on the chart; I attempted to purchase the recommended 5w candle but Fastlec could not get a reasonable response ondelivery schedules from Megaman UK, even after 2 weeks! I thought it was a reasonable risk to take as the wattage was higher, and other bulbs rated at 7w were tested on the chart. The outcome is that the dimming range is pretty close to what you get with a quality dimmer and an incandescent light bulb, very wide range, responding in my tests down to 5%! Wow, we’re getting somewhere! Except it still glows in standby, albeit the difference with this bulb is there’s quite a step between 10% and standby. Perhaps this is just something that cannot be avoided with candles? I don’t know.

    So this information will be passed back to LWRF support. I’m willing to accept the situation with the lantern, but not the hallway. I’m spending rather a lot of money on LED technology right now and so far the results are not good. Does moving to constant voltage multi-lamp per driver systems yield better results? I hope so because I’m about to start a big project next year with about 2 dozen down lights over 3 or 4 circuits and it needs to work reliably with the dimming range I found with the outside lantern.

    In fact, I was ready to call it a day with LightwaveRF this weekend. The trouble is the wife and I cannot find any other control surfaces we like the look of without going to the dizzy heights of Lutron. I can’t afford a second mortgage! So I just feel trapped. I genuinely believed that the Megaman bulbs would solve the issues we have, and the chart indicated as such, however this goal has not been achieved.

    Ladies and gents, the shenanigans continue and I will report back on what Megaman/LWRF decide to do. I want them to swap out the Megaman bulbs at their cost for ones that work as described, as per their literature and testing chart. I think that is a perfectly reasonable request.

    Chester
    #16758
     nbrooker says:

    nbrooker
    Participant

    Hey guys just to chime in on bulbs and the LWRF400 Dimmer.
    I recently picked up some GU10s and an LWRF400 dimmer (having one other LW200 series dimmer in the ahll running halogens off it very smooth dimming)

    Regarding the LW400 and the 6 x 6W COB GU10s they do turn off fully. I do however have an issue with it not soft starting but I believe this is covered somewhere else. its almost 2 stage i.e. about 50% then all on, maybe due to minimum output? i.e. 3watts x 6 bulbs?
    There is also a faint buzz or humm very faint like youd get from powered up small speakers – is this normal?
    If you are interested in which bulbs Ive used they are 580Lumen COBs and they have a beam angle of 60deg really warm creamy light.
    Anyway the ones I used are and are seriously nice i.e. better than halogen i think. (I had bought alot of different LEDs in the past to try) so hope this help
    http://www.lightrabbit.ie/superior-6-watt-gu10-cob-led-spotlight-60w-equivalent.html
    Nick
    Ya ya first post im recommending stuff but though it might be of help.

    #16967
     Chester says:

    Chester
    Participant

    The art of LED dimming: configure the master!

    I’ve managed to find 3 different terms for the same thing: Dim Level, Dimmer Setting, and Dimming Range! Dim Level is used on the Megaman lamps chart. Dimmer Setting is used on the Integrated Downlight Compatibility chart, and Dimming Range is used in the manual. It would have been really helpful to use the same term in all 3 locations! Consistency is the key.

    What I found is the default preset (1) yielded the worst result for 1 or 2 Megaman Classic 8.5w bulbs on a circuit. Change the Dimming Range preset to 5 and it works a lot better. Well, that is until it turns itself off which it does when dimmed low. Switching it back on again means it stays on. How weird is that!?! Just for clarity, and as the manual doesn’t explain what happens within presets in the dimmer, pressing the on button decreases the preset level chosen, and pressing the off button increases the preset level chosen. The higher the preset, the wider the dimming range. Actually, the video they linked to illustrates the process far better than the manual:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnS9DW67zUs

    I found all of this out and tested it shortly after I posted up the last mammoth. And then a full week later, LWRF sent me a link to exactly the same thing!

    Apologies to anyone offended by me dribbling on, but if it saves one person from hair loss, it’s worth it!

    Chester
    #16990
     Chris says:

    Chris
    Key Master

    LED dimming is a huge minefield not least because it isn’t actually possible to ‘dim’ an LED – the dimming effect is achieved using Pulse Width Modulation – basically flashing the LED so fast the eye cannot see, but varying the number of on vs off cycles over time to make it appear dimmer.

    The original 200 series dimmers worked really well with the Lumilife lamps, but not much else. When Megaman took over the distribution, they re-worked the design to offer better dimming capability with more LED lamps, but at the expense of the soft on/soft off of the older dimmers. Unsurprisingly they are now tuned to work well with Megaman lamps which is of course Megaman’s biggest money maker.

    When I met with one of the directors of Megaman, I was told why the LEDHut/Lumilife lamps were not the best – stack them high, sell them cheap, low quality etc – but frankly who cares, they work fine for me and cost me a lot less than Megaman ones and all of my rooms (bar two recent refurbs) all have 200 series dimmers in them. They have served me (and others on this forum) well.

    There is a lamp compatibility guide in the features section of this site, but it isn’t obvious and hasn’t been updated since the 400 series dimmers were released. If you want to contribute something to this, please let me know.

    Chris Mills Founder and Editor - LightwaveRF Community http://cpmills.com/ http://lightwaverfcommunity.org.uk
    #16992
     Davey says:

    Davey
    Participant

    the ledhut lamps when dimmed cause a strobe effect that cam knock you sick. This is because the cheap chips in them cant process the on/off fast enough to trick the eye.

    #17015
     cndawes says:

    cndawes
    Participant

    @Chris … is it worth sticking a quick (and rather large!) note on the compatible lamps page to explain that they’ve not been tested with the 400 series as it seems that people actually come here for advice, see the page and assume they work …

    .

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