Heating Controls – What do we know

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This topic contains 175 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by  mrashton 2 months, 4 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 176 total)
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  • #15121
     Davey says:

    Davey
    Participant

    the slave stats arent on sale yet for some reason?

    #15122
     skiv71 says:

    skiv71
    Participant

    Yes, i believe the TRV and Thermostats will have some intelligence in them.

    The app is just a front end to send UDP commands to the wifi link, which end up as RF codes.

    developer of BMS Link (http://linode.bmslink.co.uk). A cloud based Home Automation platform for LightwaveRF, Z-Wave, RFXCOM.
    #15125
     tiptoptrump says:

    tiptoptrump
    Participant

    Well I have to say I am completely undewhelmed by the perceived performance of the TRV’s.
    It appears to be an old fashioned “thermostat in the hallway” operating system.
    I am still waiting for the detailed information on the Room Thermostats to see if these can be linked to the boiler switch.
    I hope they can, but am not as wildly optimistic as I mistakenly was.
    This system would lag seriously behind the likes of Honeywell’s Evohome when it comes to internet controlled heating systems if they cant.

    #15128
     rhlangdon says:

    rhlangdon
    Participant

    Think you have misunderstood the system. It is a long way from the “old fashioned thermostat in the hallway system”

    #15129
     Chris says:

    Chris
    Key Master

    I for one would really prefer it if the TRV’s, home/room stat and boiler switch are able to operate without the Wi-Fi link. I tinker waaayy too much with my home networking (much to the annoyance of the minister for interior affairs) to risk it being an absolute requirement for the delivery of heat in the winter.

    I’d be happy if it works out to be a straight forward emulation/swap out of my current ELV set up. I don’t have a typical UK heating system. When I bought the house 10 years ago, the 25 year old combi-boiler had a straight forward single channel timer for heat (hot water being controlled by demand) and a bunch of TRV’s – I didn’t even have a loop radiator. Over time I have replaced each TRV with a battery powered actuator (which has no heat sensing capability at all) paired with a programmer located in the same room. My actuators appear to be dumbed down versions of the LWRF TRV’s. The programmer appears to do the same as the LWRF House Thermostat in that it maintains a programme, measures the temperature and tells the TRV’s to open/close to a percentage point as it deems necessary. None of this so far has any influence over the boiler and therefore over the presence of hot water circulating around the loop and it seems that this is one option for the LWRF kit. Something else will need to control the boiler and this could be as simple as a single channel timer. The problem with this set up is that while the boiler will sense the temperature of the water being returned and control the flame accordingly, it will not stop the pump – this will be running all the time the timer is ‘on’.

    On my system, this is where my interlock comes in to play and on a LWRF system where, I think, the boiler switch will come in. I believe it is now a requirement to have an interlock which switches off the boiler when there is no demand for heat. In a typical UK setup, this will be the thermostat which is typically located in the coldest room of the house and with a radiator which does not have a TRV. I’ve never had one of these. The typical UK set up keeps the boiler running until such time as the coldest room reaches the desired temperature. Working on the basis that if the coldest room is warm, all the other rooms are too. Adjustment/tempering of the warmer rooms is achieved using standard TRV’s in those rooms. IMHO typical UK systems are hideously inefficient. If the coldest room never reaches the desired set point (perhaps due to poor insulation or undersized radiators), the boiler will be constantly on even though the warmer rooms have closed all of their TRV’s. I’m hoping that like my system, the boiler switch will only be on when one or more TRV’s are open and calling for heat.

    I guess to replace my system like for like, I will need a house stat in every room to maintain the zone’s programme. This looks to be more expensive than the current system I have. If I can stop tinkering with my home networking long enough to maintain a stable Wi-Fi link control and/or Wi-Fi link control does not require cloud connectivity, then I’d be tempted to migrate the programme control to the Wi-Fi link in return for more aesthetically pleasing and cheaper room stats which simply measure the current temperature, compare that to the set point and control the TRV directly. That said, the pictures all show the words “slave” so I’m hoping they aren’t just dumb sensors which tell the Wi-Fi link to request more heat from the TRV.

    My bathroom doesn’t have a TRV, but that doesn’t bother me too much. I guess I think of this as passively heated albeit actually being directly heated. It also acts as my ‘loop’ which I personally don’t think I need. Part of the problem with all of this is that domestic plumbers and heating engineers only really understand what they were taught at college – i.e. you need a thermostat, you need room TRVs and you need a constantly open radiator to take away the excess heat from the boiler. I suspect commercial heating engineers will understand better because BMS systems are typically much more complex.

    Chris Mills Founder and Editor - LightwaveRF Community http://cpmills.com/ http://lightwaverfcommunity.org.uk
    #15131
     tiptoptrump says:

    tiptoptrump
    Participant

    Eloquently put Chris.

    RLangdon I apologise if I have offended. I was probably a bit cavalier with the “old fashioned statement”, however as things stand and with the information available it appears to be a high tech internet operated heating system basically controlled from the coldest room in your house.

    #15132
     djtomkins says:

    djtomkins
    Participant

    I think it desperately needs room stats to be a truly workable system. These are featured in much of the literature but not part of the current (nearly) GA products.

    I really like the idea of the TRVs calling the boiler either directly or indirectly (thus removing the need for a timer of any sorts within the heating system itself) but I suspect that this may not be the set up.

    Also, those of us with a dual channel (Heating & HW) boiler control are left scratching their heads unless they have an adventurous sparky…..

    Two floors tooled up for light and power! Lighting circuits: 5 x 1 gang, 5 x 2 gang, 3 x 3 gang, 6 relay circuits, mainly LEDHut 5W LEDs (91!) but also outdoor SON lamps, LED kitchen lights, LED candle bulbs, halogen bulbs and a dimmable CFL, 5 mood controllers, two remote switches, 2 PIRs. Power: one remote socket, 9 plug in modules. Patiently waited for the heating modules for years, and am a little underwhelmed....flirting with evohome....and please don't tell me "there is a better way" and try to sel
    #15133
     Paddchas says:

    Paddchas
    Participant

    My kit is arriving this afternoon by DPD so I will hopefully be able to answer all these questions soon for us. I have an android phone and the new app. I’ll take some photos too

    My money is on you needing the thermostat per zone for the ‘call for heat’ to work per zone. I fear they may not bother with the slate stats – the main stat could just be per zone. Presumably the slave stat in theory is the same as the main without the programming capability, and looks nicer in steel finish. I tried to order one from a shop showing they had it in stock yesterday, and I got an email to apologise and say they were expecting mid October earliest.

    If the trv’s can link to the boiler without the stat, I’ll let you know

    #15135
     Paddchas says:

    Paddchas
    Participant

    Well the wifi link doesn’t respond to any commands from the android app to do with heating. I’m on r2.51a. So I can’t actually pair anything with the app. Not a good start….

    But as it stands I have paired the devices to each other ok.

    However..

    The trv does pair with the boiler switch, but then it doesn’t seem to do anything I.e. There is no interaction between the two based on manually opening / closing the trv by pressing its standby button. Even setting to away which is supposed to be 15c, the boiler switch would not turn off (it is about 24c near the radiator)

    The stat does pair with the trv, and then will drive it open/closed based on the actual vs target on the stat. If I set target close to be actual, it also seems to move the motor only a little, i.e. It looks like its not just all on or all off

    The stat also pairs with the boiler switch and the same behaviour is seen, albeit it’s just on or off depending on target vs actual on the stat.

    Key finding I think, the stat only drives the latest thing it was paired to, i.e. It will not drive the boiler switch AND the trv at same time…

    That’s all for now.

    #15137
     tiptoptrump says:

    tiptoptrump
    Participant

    Thanks for the information. Hopefully you will be able to get the app sorted.
    I am interested in what type of temperature feedback you get from the TRV alone, Set point information or actual temp too.
    I remember reading that the Boiler switch has to be linked to the Home Thermostat. It would be the only way the switch could default to set temperatures when operated manually.
    Did you pair the Boiler Switch with the Stat first? I would imagine it would be a requirement to be done in that order.

    #15138
     Paddchas says:

    Paddchas
    Participant

    It made no difference which order I paired, I tried both. The stat can only control the boiler switch or the trv’s.

    No idea on feedback from the trv until I get the app working. Can you check what fw your wifi link is on please? (Reboot and it says on the display at startup)

    #15139
     tiptoptrump says:

    tiptoptrump
    Participant

    Sorry Paddchas – Not at home – Im sure someone else will help

    #15140
     Node Zero says:

    Node Zero
    Participant

    FW R2.71 (see top line of screenshot for other details) seems to be the latest but I was under the impression our LW500 wfl’s will need an update to give the same functionality as the LW930 wfl, i.e. a pairing or linking mode as it is now referred to in the manuals.

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    #15142
     Paddchas says:

    Paddchas
    Participant

    Node zero – thanks. Do you have the android version? If so can you try adding a device in the heating tab and see whether your wifi link acknowledges receipt of the command on its display? Cheers

    #15143
     Node Zero says:

    Node Zero
    Participant

    Yes, I tried that yesterday ( i have no heating products yet, just messing about) and the wifi link display does not change at all and I get a “Link Failed Timeout” message displayed on my android app.

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ABOUT Chris

Chris works as a techie for a large IT service provider. He is a geek at heart and loves nothing more than trying to automate his home. The problem is, his wife simply doesn't get it and can't understand why they can't have 'normal' lights like everyone else! Chris is dedicated therefore to implementing automation in a family friendly way.

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