Heating Controls – What do we know

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This topic contains 173 replies, has 20 voices, and was last updated by  rhlangdon 2 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #15036
     Chris says:

    Chris
    Key Master

    I figured we needed a thread to collate everything we (think we) know and questions we have about the new heating controls. Here’s what I know – chime in if you wish:

    * The products are now available from a small number of retailers LightwaveRF.co.uk and The Smart Shop.
    * Available products at this time appear to be the TRV, the Home Thermostat, the Boiler Switch and a Hand Held remote.
    * The TRV can act standalone, but offers limited functionality unless paired with a thermostat or a Wi-Fi link and app combination.
    * The thermostat acts as a programmer and thermostat allowing heating on/off times to be set.
    * The boiler switch acts as the interlock controlling the boiler in response to a demand for heat from the other components. Does this demand come from the TRV or from the Thermostat?
    * Does the TRV increment/decrement the valve flow by small percentages or is it straight on/off?
    * If the former, is it possible to configure a threshold (my old valves/rads don’t offer any significant heat output unless the valve is open more that 10-20% so my interlock ignores any value under this threshold which I have set).
    * What is the difference between the Home Thermostat and the Room Thermostat? Does it just lack programming and can this function be taken on in lieu by the Wi-Fi link/app combination?

    Over to you…?

    Chris Mills Founder and Editor - LightwaveRF Community http://cpmills.com/ http://lightwaverfcommunity.org.uk
    #15038
     Cornishrex says:

    Cornishrex
    Participant

    My wifi link is about a year old. Will it work with the new heating system? I thought I read somewhere they were changing the frequency or something?

    Any suggestion of starter pack? I gave at least 23 rads in my house and it’s not zoned …

    #15039
     markk says:

    markk
    Participant

    Regarding your last point Chris, it appears the home thermostat can be used in conjunction with the boiler control to measure temperature of one area and call for the boiler to switch on wirelessly if this drops below a set level. Exactly as any other wireless thermostat and programmer would. But, with the added benefit of being able to remotely.

    Then, you can add TRVs to the system which are also programable acting exactly as the home thermostat does by calling for the boiler to switch on if the temperature drops below a set level and can allow you to heat rooms independently of each other.

    Since the TRVs don’t have many controls on, this is where the room thermostats come in. They can be fixed to the wall in the room and linked wirelessly with the radiator in it, or any number of others allowing easy remote control. Basically, they look just like these: http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Terrier_i-temp_Remote_Control.html#a635100 which work with the Peglar I-temp TRVs which, if they could be linked to a boiler control, would probably do exactly the same thing as the new LWRF heating controls for less than half the cost!

    Running RFXCom with Domoticz on model b raspberry pi. LWRF dimmer switches, PIRs and plug sockets. Some Homeeasy switches, harmony hub controlling AV and air con. Geofencing with Pilot app. Tado for heating.
    #15041
     Paddchas says:

    Paddchas
    Participant

    The android app has now been updated to include a separate tab at the bottom for heating devices

    The products are now available from Securicare on ebay and amazon

    Still no product manuals on megaman

    #15051
     Paddchas says:

    Paddchas
    Participant

    Found this

    http://www.lightwaverf.house

    Detailed pdf download still fails to describe whether or not the trv’s / wifi link tie up with the boiler switch I.e. Call for heat?

    #15071
     Chris says:

    Chris
    Key Master

    There are some PDF’s on the Response Electronics (lightwaverf.co.uk) site which are useful, but the boiler switch doesn’t contain any decent wiring detail except a QR code (and NO associated link) to the LightwaveRF.com site. The link returns a 404 (or did on Friday)! #UBERFAIL IMHO.

    Chris Mills Founder and Editor - LightwaveRF Community http://cpmills.com/ http://lightwaverfcommunity.org.uk
    #15075
     PhilC says:

    PhilC
    Participant

    Hi all,
    I have a non combi boiler, ie, I have a hot water tank. if I used the room stat and the boiler switch, does anyone know how I could control the hot water independently ?

    Phil.

    Gone in at the deep end and learning with RPI, RFX, Conrad, WiFi link, 5 PIRs, 5 Door sensors, 18 light switches, 22 sockets and 4 Mood controllers all running on Domoticz. Normal comment I get is, whats wrong with just turning on a switch....
    #15077
     Paddchas says:

    Paddchas
    Participant

    There are some PDF’s on the Response Electronics (lightwaverf.co.uk) site which are useful, but the boiler switch doesn’t contain any decent wiring detail except a QR code (and NO associated link) to the LightwaveRF.com site. The link returns a 404 (or did on Friday)! #UBERFAIL IMHO.

    Thanks Chris. I couldn’t find on lightwave.co.uk but did on smart shop, not sure if that’s what you meant?

    I still don’t think there’s a clear explanation of how zoned heating works, it’s at the end of the PDFs and not in as much detail.

    It is clear that zones can be created and controlled by app or by thermostat – both that target temp for zones can be set on thermostat and app, and ref temps can be taken from trv or from thermostat. But I can’t see anything that confirms the call for heat to the boiler switch? It talks about links from thermostat/app to boiler switch, but never quite makes the jump to confirm that zone temps can/will drive the boiler switch?

    You would hope it does this, but I can imagine the boiler control and the zone control acting independently , especially since it doesn’t confirm otherwise. Thoughts?

    #15078
     djtomkins says:

    djtomkins
    Participant

    I don’t understand why you would want the TRVs to call for the boilder to switch on? Surely the TRVs should open and close as required to maintain the target temperature of the room (assuming as I am that there is a thermostat in the TRV, as with the “old style” LWRF TRVs – and by definition).

    Why wouldn’t you just keep your house stat running to manage when the house might need to call for heat at all and then let the TRVs do the rest?

    There might be heat loss in the pipe runs, but surely this is minimal.

    The way I see it, and the way the pdf of http://www.lightwaverf.house describes it, I think that the boiler switch is one option, but frankly, a handful of TRVs to control radiators in a few key rooms will do the job for me.

    Two floors tooled up for light and power! Lighting circuits: 5 x 1 gang, 5 x 2 gang, 3 x 3 gang, 6 relay circuits, mainly LEDHut 5W LEDs (91!) but also outdoor SON lamps, LED kitchen lights, LED candle bulbs, halogen bulbs and a dimmable CFL, 5 mood controllers, two remote switches, 2 PIRs. Power: one remote socket, 9 plug in modules. Patiently waited for the heating modules for years, and am a little underwhelmed....flirting with evohome....and please don't tell me "there is a better way" and try to sel
    #15080
     bellissimo says:

    bellissimo
    Participant

    Well if you have the TRVs on all radiators and it was too warm to trigger any of them, then the boiler may keep pumping water round the system. It probably depends on what type of boiler you have as to whether this happens and what the effects are, but this may (a) be a waste of electricity and (b) be potentially bad for the heating system…

    I am not a heating engineer by any means, but this is my thinking on why having both linked together would by the most desirable solution. If the TRVs can be scheduled to be active at given times of the day, then there would be no need for a home stat at all.

    #15081
     Paddchas says:

    Paddchas
    Participant

    Having re-read the PDFs , I think it is the thermostat or app only that link to the boiler switch, but the trv’s cannot? It seems however that the stat can link to the trv’s and then the stats view of actual temp can be used to drive the trv’s , as an alternative to the internal view of actual temp from the trv’s own sensor.

    It does seem like the trv’s can be purchased on their own and controlled by the app without touching the rest of your heating setup, liked djtomkins describes, but then you would only be able to ‘modulate’ the temp in rooms when the boiler was already on (driven by separate schedule?), and wouldn’t have the boiler turning off when it wasn’t required? You wouldn’t be able to set the temp for a zone outside that schedule and have the boiler respond? Equally, if your boiler was driven separately by schedule and traditional stat, there could also be times when the traditional stat turns off the boiler, but the trv’s are open trying to warm up to target temp?

    My question is what happens when the LWRF stat is used to control the trv’s. Does the target vs actual on the stat/app drive the boiler on/off as well as the trv’s? If so, then multiple stats, one for each zone, each driving the boiler switch, would surely give the true zoned solution?

    #15084
     djtomkins says:

    djtomkins
    Participant

    Well if you have the TRVs on all radiators and it was too warm to trigger any of them, then the boiler may keep pumping water round the system. It probably depends on what type of boiler you have as to whether this happens and what the effects are, but this may (a) be a waste of electricity and (b) be potentially bad for the heating system…

    But surely this is how my TRVs work today?

    It does seem like the trv’s can be purchased on their own and controlled by the app without touching the rest of your heating setup, liked djtomkins describes, but then you would only be able to ‘modulate’ the temp in rooms when the boiler was already on (driven by separate schedule?), and wouldn’t have the boiler turning off when it wasn’t required?

    Again just like my system today.

    I currently have a two channel (Heat/HW) boiler control, and a timed thermostat. I have been leaving the CH when at home, and then letting the stat modulate the CH at certain times of the day (e.g I have a 14 degree baseline overnight, then up to 18 for 5am-8am, back to 16 from 8am – 2pm) etc etc. On top of that I have the TRVs on all but a couple of rads.

    The LWRF TRVs as I understand them will allow me to raise the general temperature of the thermostat, and then programme each TRV to a schedule that suits the room.

    I am sure that turning the boiler off completely from the TRVs would be more efficient, but how much more really? My main concern is the money I waste heating all the bedrooms from 5pm – 11pm when the kids rooms could be 5-7 and ours could be 10-11 and the spare room can be left unused.

    I see the TRVs as a way to have much more interaction with my TRVs and nothing cleverer than that, and I suspect that as a system that is (as LWRF say) completely modular and one you can grow as you choose, then I suspect this is the way LWRF have built it.

    Two floors tooled up for light and power! Lighting circuits: 5 x 1 gang, 5 x 2 gang, 3 x 3 gang, 6 relay circuits, mainly LEDHut 5W LEDs (91!) but also outdoor SON lamps, LED kitchen lights, LED candle bulbs, halogen bulbs and a dimmable CFL, 5 mood controllers, two remote switches, 2 PIRs. Power: one remote socket, 9 plug in modules. Patiently waited for the heating modules for years, and am a little underwhelmed....flirting with evohome....and please don't tell me "there is a better way" and try to sel
    #15085
     tiptoptrump says:

    tiptoptrump
    Participant

    I suspect the TRV’s will link directly to the Boiler switch. If you are sat in your lounge and you want more heat then asking that one TRV to open should turn on the boiler and circulate heating around just the open radiator TRV (and of course your bypass ) . Because you are circulating in a limited loop the heating demand will be less and should be satisfied quicker.
    If you fit a room stat then you will get the benefit of having a feedback temperature on your app. (The actual room temp) I am reasonably sure if you only fit the TRV you will only be getting the set point temperature as a feedback.

    In reply to PhilC question about hot water control. If you have an S Plan system (2 Two way valves for heating & for Hot water) then it would be just a case of fitting either the new Electric heating switch and using it to interrupt the power supply to your hot water valve. The new switch should have its own schedule on the app and your existing thermostat on the tank will switch off the 2 way valve when the temperature is satisfied. Alternatively you could fit an in line relay and set up a switching schedule.

    #15086
     djtomkins says:

    djtomkins
    Participant

    I suspect the TRV’s will link directly to the Boiler switch. If you are sat in your lounge and you want more heat then asking that one TRV to open should turn on the boiler and circulate heating around just the open radiator TRV (and of course your bypass ) . Because you are circulating in a limited loop the heating demand will be less and should be satisfief quicker.

    This might be how you’d like it to work, but accepting that the title of the PDF is “NOT FINAL” then this would suggest that the bundle which excludes the boiler switch doesn’t do what it claims to (which I doubt).

    From http://www.lightwaverf.house/assets/lightwaverf.house/downloads/Snug%20Heating%20Kit%20NOT%20FINAL.pdf

    “The following instructions refer to the ‘Snug’ Heating Starter Pack (Model No. JSJSLW703). Once installed, this pack will allow you to remotely control our radiators using your smartphone or tablet.
    This kit contains:
    1 x Lightwave Link (Model No. JSJSLW930)
    3 x Radiator Valve (TRV) (Model No. JSJSW922)”

    This doesn’t rule out it doing it via the switch as well as an alternative, but I doubt it.

    Time will tell!

    Two floors tooled up for light and power! Lighting circuits: 5 x 1 gang, 5 x 2 gang, 3 x 3 gang, 6 relay circuits, mainly LEDHut 5W LEDs (91!) but also outdoor SON lamps, LED kitchen lights, LED candle bulbs, halogen bulbs and a dimmable CFL, 5 mood controllers, two remote switches, 2 PIRs. Power: one remote socket, 9 plug in modules. Patiently waited for the heating modules for years, and am a little underwhelmed....flirting with evohome....and please don't tell me "there is a better way" and try to sel
    #15087
     Paddchas says:

    Paddchas
    Participant

    Djtomkins – I think it can do more than you describe but I agree your proposal may be cost effective if you fit trv’s on all rads and don’t have an issue with the scenario where all are turned off but boiler still on and water still pumping?

    Tiptop trump – I was hoping for this, but the PDFs on thesmartshop mention loads of scenarios and pretty much the only one that doesn’t feature is trv and boiler switch only.

    It looks to me like you need the stat in the middle if you want a behavioural link between trv/zone needing heat, and the boiler responding. So in turn you need a stat for each zone

    The only real way to get to the bottom of all of this is to buy some and have a play I guess!

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ABOUT Chris

Chris works as a techie for a large IT service provider. He is a geek at heart and loves nothing more than trying to automate his home. The problem is, his wife simply doesn't get it and can't understand why they can't have 'normal' lights like everyone else! Chris is dedicated therefore to implementing automation in a family friendly way.

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